From lagging to leading metrics with Connie Chwan

Connie joins me to chat about goal setting and what we should try to aim for when making goals that will lead to positive metrics. Not only does Connie help us understand what we should be looking for in these goals but also give great examples on how to do make these goals.

Where to find Connie:
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Full transcription below (May contain typos):

Connie: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] so they may measure number of client, meetings and instead of a weekly goal, and somebody has to own that number.

It doesn't mean that's the person who has to go do 10 meetings. It could be a sales team of five people, but we're going to look into the eyes of that person when they're on the leadership team. When that number is at met each week. And have a discussion about what went sideways.  

Keerstyn: [00:00:43] welcome to the podcast, Connie. I am very excited to have you here today. Connie Schwann is with us and she, is an EOS implementer. do you want to give us a little bit of a better understanding of how you got involved in what you do now and then who you serve currently?

Connie: [00:00:59] about, [00:01:00] actually 13 years ago, I hired an EOS implementer at my last company. I was walking around my company. And my leadership team just kept rolling their eyes at me going, Oh, she'll go away at some point because I knew I wanted something, but I didn't know what I wanted. I, it, I felt unsettled.

we were successful that it wasn't like we were dying on the binary or anything, and we have great team. but something just didn't feel right. And I was invited, by a local business friend, to a workshop. there was a be presented by a gentleman named Mike Payton all about ELs. And I thought, okay, what's the, so I looked up POS found their website and was reading it going, Oh my gosh, this is what I'm looking for.

So I signed myself up and my CFO to go. unbeknownst to her, and this was a person who didn't like going to big meetings and would be so thrilled that I had signed her up. And I announced that on like Monday morning, Hey, guess what we're doing in three weeks? [00:02:00] No doubt. She was so excited. it was awesome.

yeah, that was our guests. But as like what happened? I had an opportunity to do something else that morning. I was requested to be someplace else. And so I sent her by herself, made her even more happy, but she came back from this meeting. So excited and lots of pages of notes. And she said, get this guy in here, you have to meet him.

Now I get what you're looking for. So we hired an implementer. it's about a two year process. And then I ran the company on EOS for another five years after that. And in that period of seven years, Peyton said to me, if you ever get tired of doing what you're doing, call me, I think you'd be a great implementer.

So seven years ago when I closed my company, I thought. What's the next, I decided that I would explore becoming an implementer. And I come from the time when Gino Wickman who wrote traction, which is what dos is based on hand selected everybody that went through his bootcamp. And, so I was [00:03:00] accepted into boutique.

Yep. and I've been doing this for almost seven years now and having a title in my life.

Keerstyn: [00:03:04] Awesome. Awesome. What were some of those things when you were in your organization that you were looking for? What were some of those pain points that you were just like trying to get over and over, and I'm sure that a flavor of the month occasionally came in and you tried it and it didn't work.

What were, what did EOS solve for you that

Connie: [00:03:23] you've been

Keerstyn: [00:03:23] looking for so long?

Connie: [00:03:25] we had never done anything like the star at our core values. and and that's one of the foundational, exercises in EOS, as we help companies implement it is to, and core values are discovered.

They're not something that you get five staff together and put it, lock them in a conference room with a bottle of water as Steven saltines and tell him to come up with the best. They come from the leadership at the top, because core values are it's. Your culture is who you are as a people. and interestingly, when we went through, but I didn't know that at the time I just felt unsettled.

it just didn't feel right. I felt [00:04:00] one of the things we talked with our clients about is this concept of hitting the ceiling. It doesn't feel good. You don't know what's wrong. As I say, it's not as though we were not doing it. Good work. And we were rolling and really liked us. And we like them and we liked each other, just felt, I kept walking around saying we have to do this something different, but I don't know what the difference is.

Yeah. Once I understood what the 16 components of a business is, I could see where we weren't necessarily super strong. So great example is we have a data component that we teach and what we teach that we help our clients identify the activities they do each week to get the results that they want.

And that's a measure of those every single week. we did what every one of my clients do. I would walk in and look at my marketing guy going, how are we doing? Even all of us were on it. Oh yeah. We're at [00:05:00] 110%, of ever here. And I go, Oh, okay. What does that tell you? Okay. As a CEO of a company, it was just as guilty of running on emotions and that hardcore data.

And there's just a million of those kinds of examples. that we did. And, and interestingly, when we discovered our core values, we had some people leave our company because once they understood what it meant to work with us, not for us, but with us, they knew they weren't that person.

Yeah. I see that happen all the time. And one of those people was on my leadership team. That's hard, 19 years.

Keerstyn: [00:05:38] Yeah, that's really hard. And I'm sure a weird transition

Connie: [00:05:41] to yes, it was. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Keerstyn: [00:05:47] Interesting. I really liked what you said about people were just like flying on their emotions and not hard data.

What does, what do your clients feel after the, during that process of let's [00:06:00] get to the hard data, let's try and figure this out. Is it oftentimes. Like a five step hurdle process where they start it and then it's okay. And then they realized that we need to do dive deeper into it.

What are some of those things feeling during that and how do you help them get through that?

Connie: [00:06:17] one of the things that I w we all do this, not just me, but one of the things I always tell every single client when I first meet with them, is that implementing EOS is a journey. And there's never going to be a day where you suddenly wake up and go, ah, We're running we're to ask you to do a lot of things that may sound really silly that a client may look that going, why does she want us to do this?

But it's that repetitiveness. And you get to a point where you clearly understand that we're running our company on EOS. and so when it comes to, the tool for measuring. Getting strong. The data component is all the scorecard and what we've been taught in [00:07:00] business, all our lives is to measure lagging numbers.

And you look at the end of the month, did we hit our sales fall? Did we have a profit, or whatever your measurables are. Okay. The problem with that is it's now the end of the month and what can you do about it? Nothing. And so now you're gonna to wait another month. To see if you hit your sales hole.

So instead, and I always use sales as an example because every company grabs onto this really quick. If they know that they need to have 10 client meetings a week to close a deal, then that's what they should measure. That's a leading indicator. It's there, it's an activity based. Number. And so they may measure number of client, meetings and instead of a weekly goal, and somebody has to own that number.

It doesn't mean that's the person who has to go do 10 meetings. It could be a sales team of five people, [00:08:00] but we're going to look into the eyes of that person when they're on the leadership team. When that number is at met each week. And have a discussion about what went sideways. Okay.

Yeah. it might be, we have to do three proposals a week. We have to, it's just a righty of steps. We actually have a tool that's called getting what you want and we have you decide, what do I want? And maybe it's, 10 new clients a month. What do I have to do to get there? And just keep coming back to all the steps you go through and those become your measureables.

Yeah, most clients either three to six months before they're really in love with their scorecard. Again, we're changing corporate behavior and we're not. We're asking you to look at the leading indicators of what creates the healthier company, because the scorecard related snapshot of how strong your company is right now today.

And so if you miss a number, it's not about accusing anybody of anything, it's not about beating [00:09:00] anybody up, but it's about a leadership team going, okay, what happened? And what could we do this week to get ourselves back on track? Cause if if you fell off track for a week, Maybe there was a good reason, it was Thanksgiving week.

We were close two days. We should be excited that we even ate. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:09:18] absolutely.

Connie: [00:09:21] And then, so you wouldn't spend time worrying about that, but if you were supposed to do 10 and you did two and the next week you did one, wait a minute. Where's our issue here? How do we fix this? It's about making everybody stronger and better.

Keerstyn: [00:09:35] Yeah, absolutely. And it makes it human too. I think that's another big part of this is Leadership team being able to say, okay, what actually happened here versus you're in trouble? I think oftentimes when we think of business, it's. These deadlines with harsh reality is, but in reality, it is very forgiving and open and honest and transparent.

And then also constant feedback. I think that's part of the [00:10:00] process that you're teaching that is fantastic. And,

Connie: [00:10:06] in the grand scheme of things, we're teaching leadership teams to trust each other. Yeah. And interestingly, the minute I bring that up, they go, Oh no, we trust each other.

trust from our perspective is very different than trusting that if I'm late for a meeting, you'll hop on the meeting and start it off for me. You trust is knowing that I can say to my colleague on the leadership team, Elmer, I don't, when this happens, it seems to me that you're doing X and how can we help you get better at that?

That's trust because Elmer then looks at me and goes, Oh, I didn't realize that. apparently yes, here's my issue. Here's what I'm struggling with. What can I do to get better? And because it's not a personal attack, it's helping each other get stronger. We talk about trust from the standpoint of having everybody aligned and all on the same page.

So there's no opportunity for [00:11:00] gaps and. And for dishonesty and infighting and all that stuff that can happen in the company. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:11:07] Absolutely. What are some of those hurdles that, they need to get over to get to that trust, that they need to have they, what does that look like? How long is the process?

Is it, it's very unique for every company I'm sure. Because it would be all for what different paces, but yeah. What are some of those things that they really, those soft things that they really need to. grasp onto and start becoming better.

Connie: [00:11:33] and so actually we start working on trust. The very first session we work with our clients, and back up just a moment here, we work with our clients five days a year, across two years, and then we want them to graduate.

We, because I'm not bringing them answers, they've got the answers, I'm bringing them a set of tools they can use. And I'm facilitating teaching the context. Facilitating the answers into the pools. And we really are [00:12:00] starting on day one, which is called focus day because on that day we helped. One of the things we help them do is create what we call rocks for the next 90 days.

Iraq, no, most of us. And then we, the goal sits for 10 months and then we pull it out of the jar and we go, okay.

Keerstyn: [00:12:20] That was there.

Connie: [00:12:22] Yeah, that was a great idea. So we create this 90 day world, where we come together, review the vision, make sure that we're all on the same page. Identify our priorities for them.

If we're going to hit this goal, what are we, what's critical for us to do these next 90 days, that right then, and there starts establishing trust because, to you and we're going to look to each other on the leadership team ago. here's our, okay. here's a whole list of things that are critical.

And we always talk in the terms of three to seven rocks. Hopefully closer to three than 7:00 AM I? My record is I had a [00:13:00] team come up with 76 critical items for the next 90 days. Guess what guys? You can't get all this? None.

Keerstyn: [00:13:12] No,

Connie: [00:13:13] they were like, Oh, you just don't know us yet. No, I know, but you can't be, we're going to get this down to seven tops, but it takes trust. And it takes me willing to be open and be vulnerable and have a leadership team member, look to somebody else and go Connie, really? You think that's critical? How come?

why do you think that's critical? starting that on day one and every day, the day that we worked together, those five days in a year, we get closer and closer to the team. Being able to look at each other without me prompting them. And saying, Whoa, why is that critical for us? Or why haven't we solved this issue or whatever else is going on, in the discussion.

Does that make sense? Absolutely.

Keerstyn: [00:13:57] Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's a really important [00:14:00] distinction for people who are thinking about doing EOS it's, making those priorities quickly, but then also having a questioning mindset to be able to, Support your other colleagues and the side what's extremely valuable in these next 90 days versus what's valuable in the next three years.

It's very different. And it's

Connie: [00:14:21] also a respect. The one that's valuable, three years down, we don't want to lose them. we have a place on one of their documents where all the parking it, they can put it on a list because we don't want to forget it. but this may not be the quarter to work on that.

Yeah. I often use where the company is. Let's say in two years or lease is up and your building. And you're thinking about maybe buying a building, whether it's this one or another one, you don't need to worry about that in the next 90 days, but let's put it on your list of your issues list because it's an opportunity that may, you might want to explore eight months from now or six months from now.

And we don't want to forget [00:15:00] it. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:15:01] absolutely. It keeps it in the back of your mind, but still, you still, and also the other thing too is if you completed your rocks, you could start looking at, your building or whatever other things that you might need to complete that are important,

Connie: [00:15:14] but yeah.

Are your thoughts

all 90 days? Yeah. but, but it's going to take more than a week. And if you're. In early on when people write, watch, they'd write couple simple ones and I don't mean that critically they're learning. And so they often write rots the other done in six weeks and they're related and they'll email me.

She gonna write a new one, the one.

Keerstyn: [00:15:43] yeah, absolutely. So then the racks are supposed to do the whole 90 days and you said,

Connie: [00:15:48] they don't have to take 90 days. Okay. Okay. They might happen. It might get done in 48 days or 60 days. but you've got 90 days to [00:16:00] get it done. If it gives you a little wiggle room, because stuff comes up that we cannot predict.

Keerstyn: [00:16:05] Yeah,

Connie: [00:16:06] who would have predicted we were going to shut down the state of Ohio or three months?

Keerstyn: [00:16:11] No one.

Connie: [00:16:15] So if all of the, so one of my clients is a, is a nonprofit, school K through eight. They, their target market of kids and the, central Ohio who, are, whose families are at or below the poverty level. And so we were having a quarterly session on a Friday that Monday, Ohio closed all schools. And so they had a talk about all of a sudden having to figure out how to do it online and et cetera.

And they were glad they had that the 90 day world. Because again, nobody can predict that the schools in Ohio were going to shut down for. The rest of the year, basically.

Keerstyn: [00:16:54] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, it's important. I guess I've never really thought about it [00:17:00] like that in terms of having that amount of wiggle room to be able to, deal with large, either large or small things that might come up.

yeah.

Connie: [00:17:09] Sure. Yeah, wait a little bit from my colleagues would probably raise their eyebrows if they heard me use that. if you've got something that you think I can get this done in 90 days and you get it done in 84. Okay. I teach my clients once, you know what your rock is.

You need to go back and back to your office. HQ here, do a little project planning. think about what can be done this week and next week, and look at your schedule, et cetera. And, and so if there was something you were going to do next week and all of a sudden, some big monster molder comes rolling down the Hill at you and you have to stop what you're doing and pivot, then it's okay to maybe move your rock out that next step in your rock out another week.

Keerstyn: [00:17:53] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's. Allowing you once again to be human, like I said before. [00:18:00] Okay. Not dealing with that. It's not dealing with perfect, but it's dealing with 'em. Quick and feedback oriented concepts and, yeah. Being able to be a better organization for, not only the world, but for yourself.

absolutely. Yeah. I wanted to touch on, you mentioned that, when you're implementing this, I, we talked about that trust thing you said when we're implementing this, it might seem a little bit silly. Some of the things that people are doing during this initial implementation, what are some of those.

Silly things that people might be like, what are, why are we doing this? Why do we need to do

Connie: [00:18:35] this? So where I hear that the most from the PR client feedback and sometimes pushback, one of the things we teach people as, for the leadership team to have a 90 minute meeting every week to work on their business, they take the pulse of the company, they know what's happening and they solve issues.

And It's called the level 10 meeting. And that meeting has [00:19:00] five characteristics. It's the same day. It's at the same time. It starts on time. It ends on time. And, it's the same agenda and invariably, yeah. Yeah. I've had many a person, not necessarily the entire team, but at least somebody on the team go really.

It's gotta be at the same time. Why they're like, what, who cares? Who cares is because, so what happens in many companies? Not that I ever did this, of course, but, it happens in many companies as leadership team says, yeah, we're going to meet Mondays at eight 30 and at eight 15, somebody says, Hey, can we start at eight 45?

Cause I really got to take the support call. And then eight 45 comes and that person's still on the phone. Everybody's sitting in the conference room bums and then somebody goes, Oh gosh, I was supposed to email somebody. I'll wrap still in the hall. I'm going to go send an email. And now before you notice it's nine 30 and we still haven't started.

And so then we added the agenda gets set during the start of the [00:20:00] meeting. What do we want to talk about today? that's not real focused. And what often happens, and it's not uncommon in that scenario for the sales team and whoever represents sales, a leadership team to not set any appointments on Mondays, let's say because they have no clue when they're going to be available.

Okay. A good use of their time. And so by setting a day and a time and starting in time on ending on time, everybody knows what the expectations. Yeah, am by having a set agenda, the agenda and the topics, and it's standard for every week. It's the same exact agenda for every one of our clients.

Everybody coming into the meeting knows what to expect. And so there's things that have come up during the week. They go, Oh, I got to share this with the team. They know where that's going to go on the agenda. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:20:50] absolutely.

Connie: [00:20:51] And so I've had people go. Rarely we and I, and when I teach that level 10 meeting a [00:21:00] full, I make them sit there and go pull out your scheduler, tell me what day you're going to meet, what time you're going to meet.

and who's going to facilitate the meeting and who's going to bring the paperwork. and invariably, everybody comes back after a few weeks going love level 10 meetings. Yeah, because they know it starts at nine. We're done at 10 30. People can plan their day. they actually get through an agenda and they solve issues and they're now ready to go attack their week.

and yeah, it sounds silly either. We mean the same agenda. We, again, as business people, we were never taught that. We never approached. Most of us never approach it from that way. I'm sure there's somebody out there that came up with the concept of having a set agenda, but that's not something that has,

Keerstyn: [00:21:51] it's not normal.

Connie: [00:21:53] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:21:55] absolutely. Yeah. I really appreciate that. You went through that, especially that time thing. [00:22:00] I totally see where you're coming from with, do we really need to do this again? And it does get pushed back. And, when you said it as a priority, that's really important, valuable, and that also shows that you are putting time into this and, I feel that it's valuable and that's really important to spread to the rest of your organization, especially if you're going to be moving EOS down into the rest of the organization.

Eventually it shows an initial leadership and that's the in building trust and, having constant feedback, I think it rolls into everything. but

Connie: [00:22:35] eventually we'll do


yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:22:36] that's extremely important. Absolutely. Absolutely. Awesome. Connie, if people want to use you as an EOS implementer or, just get in touch with you just to talk about EOS or business or whatever it may be, how can they, come in?

Connie: [00:22:51] So there's a couple of ways. my website is www.pureandthenahyphendirection.com direction has [00:23:00] always hyphenated for me. and there's a contact form on that, website that they can just reach out. they can find me on LinkedIn, reach out to relate then. my email is connie@dashdirection.com.

I am always available to just chat. what about my core values is to help first. And so I many times will spend an hour on a phone or on a zoom call or over a cup of coffee with someone just chatting about what's going on in the company, what they're looking for. And, and I do that very willingly and don't expect anything out of it.

There's no obligation. every, before we work with a leadership team, we do what we call a 90 minute meeting. It's 90 minutes for me to show a leadership team. what it looks like when a company runs on ELs to walk them through the process. So they know if they were to engage with me or any other implementer, we're going to go through the exact same process every time they know what they're getting.

Yeah, there's no question. We actually show them the agendas for all of our sessions [00:24:00] together across the two years. and I actually teach them how to use one of our favorite tools, the vision traction organizer. So even if they never worked with me or anybody else, they've got the script tool they can use.

and again, there's no obligation and it's an opportunity for me to meet them, find out what their challenges are. ELs is hard work implementing us as hard work. I say that to every single prospective customer and most folks come back to me at some point and go, you were right. This, we work hard in our session days.

This is not simple. And so I am always open to a great conversation with somebody. some of the coolest people in the world

Keerstyn: [00:24:39] you do, I'm sure that you do, if they're trying to implement us and they are. Really working towards being a better organization, better people, and it's hard work, but it shows

Connie: [00:24:51] that I offer a variety of ways to achieve that.

and everything gets tailored to the individual client. Awesome.

Keerstyn: [00:24:58] Cool. thank you so much, [00:25:00] Connie, for joining us today. This was a lot of fun to hear about your past and learn how you help people, but more, and, yeah. Thank you so much. I've appreciated that.

Connie: [00:25:09] thank you honor.

That you would have me.



Teams also need to get away and have time to think together and reflect together. Be able to spend just an hour to be curious about each other. -Denise Van Eck, Owner of Thought Design

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